Friday, April 8, 2011

[Gray Box Project] Yes, But Which 13th Century?

I'd like to take a moment before continuing with my sectional analysis of the Forgotten Realms Gray Box to share a few of the thoughts that have been bouncing around my head since I started reading the books and occasioned by other blog posts and media.

In my last post, I mentioned the Introduction of the Cyclopedia of the Realms stating that the Realms are "a world very similar to the Earth of the 13th and 14th centuries." I also mused that one could make imaginative hay with the fact that we're not told whether that's the 13th-14th century AD or BC. (Or CE vs. BCE, if you like.) I was being somewhat facetious with that point, yet the idea started to gain some traction in the days since. There were a couple thoughtful and insightful blog posts that cropped up last week on the subject of when D&D is precisely. Trollsymth's answer - "neverwhen" - suits me fine, as far as vanilla D&D goes. But then again, I can get all my "neverwhen" action playing Pendragon and Dragon Warriors. So where does that leave my approach to the Realms? Then over on ChicagoWiz's blog, the subject of his idea for setting a D&D campaign in a world inspired by Sumerian mythology came up in posts and comments around the same time. More grist for my thought mill. I started looking up the 13th and 14th centuries BC and liked what I saw.

If studying something called the "Volga Battle Axe culture" was as FUCKING METAL as it sounds, there'd be a lot more archaeologists in the world, myself included
Then I went to see Your Highness today. All I can really say is that they've finally made the perfect Dungeons & Dragons movie, for good and for ill. It's as if the spirit of a thousand game tables spontaneously created this movie, complete with tons of inappropriate humor and awkward pacing. It's not perfect as a movie (as most critics seem to be pointing out), but as an encapsulation of vanilla D&D you really can't do better. The set dressing, costumes, and overall look of the movie is particularly well done. And in taking in the visuals and the implied setting and genre assumptions, I realized I'm pretty much okay with not doing vanilla D&D with the Realms. It's almost as if Your Highness nailed that whole scene so perfectly, I don't feel the need to go any further in my own imagination.

Of course, nothing's carven in stone, but I'm pretty much set on taking the following approach to all future posts in the Gray Box project: Each post will effectively be split into two parts; one part will discuss what's in the books and what's literally there, while the second part will discuss how I'll be adapting the material for my Bronze Age Realms variation. Because, seriously, the 14th to 13th centuries BC rocked.

Let's count the ways: the apex of Egyptian civilization under Rameses II and the craziness of Akhenaten and Nefertiti; the high-water mark of the Mycenean civilization and the (putative) dates of the Trojan War (at last an excuse to sit down and read Age of Bronze!); the writing (according to some traditions) of the Bhagavad Ghita; the rise of the Ancient Pueblo people; the Shang dynasty in China; the rise of the Assyrians; the arrival of the Kimmerians...it just goes on and on.

As others have pointed out in comments to the "When is D&D" posts linked above, there's actually a lot in D&D RAW that supports a Bronze/Iron Age setting. Many of the monsters are taken from that time, the political structures tend to be more of that era than of any sort of quasi-medieval setting. The polytheistic nature of D&D religion is very Bronze Age, and the Realms even features gods walking among mortals. And you really can't beat the visuals:










Any period that justifies more chariots and elephants in my D&D is okay in my book. I like the Howardian vibe of the Bronze Age, too. I'm considering reskinning goblinoids as competing hominids and "sub-men" still functioning at neolithic or paleolithic levels. I'm not going to do a full-on swords 'n' sorcery vibe, though. Might as well still be gaming in the Wilderlands if that were the case. But neither am I going for strict historical fidelity. My aim is some mythical sweet spot in between the two. I'm going to attempt a Bronze Age vibe in my adaptations rather than going for strict historical analogues ("Cormyr=Egypt," etc.). But inevitably some regions will be more reminiscent of a certain region than others (I'm picturing the Amn/Calimshan regions having a strong Indian vibe, for example, and my Dwarf citadels will likely bear a striking resemblance to cliff dwellings). Nor will I be strictly beholden to Bronze Age fidelity. I'm thinking of giving the elves at least Iron Age tech, if not higher (counterbalanced by an Imperial Roman/Melnibonean decline and decadence, of course). And what civilization referenced in the Introduction existed eons ago to leave behind all those magnificent ruins? And what was their tech level like?

As I mentioned in my post evaluating the cover art, there's a definite Bronze Age vibe to the Forgotten Realms logo itself and the mysterious rider on the cover of the box. Modeling that rider and the barbarians in the setting on the Kimmerians and proto-Teutons is really a no-brainer. So in a way I feel that taking the Realms (back) to the Bronze Age is, in a way, tapping into those initial impressions of the setting I got the first time I laid eyes on the cover over 20 years ago.

Oh, and once ChicagoWiz gets around to putting out that Sumerian megadungeon (which we all know is going rock, by the way, so get cracking on it, good sir), I'll have my own personal Waterdeep...

16 comments:

  1. I played in a short Rolemaster campaign set during the Sea Peoples' reign in the Mediterranean, with magic and demihumans. It was pretty badass.

    Your Highness was D&D as it is usually played, rather than as we often wish it was. Stilted yet profanity-studded dialogue. Lots of jokes that fall flat (and a few that work). NPCs that have names like The Wise Wizard. Henchmen that are abused and nameless hirelings that are killed off with little fanfare. Mages that shoot lightning bolts and fireballs constantly. I liked it more than I logically should have, probably for that reason.

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  2. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to exploring the possibilities the period offers.

    As for Your Highness, I totally agree on all points. That's why I said it's like the spirit of a thousand game tables; it's sort of the KotDT of movies, I suppose. I don't want to spoil anything for readers who haven't seen the movie yet, but the bit with the minotaur was totally something I could've seen happening at my table in high school and college (and maybe even today...). In that sense, it's the best D&D movie because it represents how D&D is in the moment even if, as you say, we tend to mythologize events in retrospect.

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  3. So, will you be using all the same names, etc? Seems like quite a huge leap from gray box Realms to ... this!

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  4. Names are something I'll be giving some thought to. At the moment, I don't see any reason to change them, though. Like I said, I'm not aiming to do an historical simulation, so even if I take cues from, say, the Mycenaeans for certain civilizations, I don't feel like I need to change proper names to sound more Grecian. But I may modify some names that sound just a bit too medieval. We'll see.

    In some ways, one of the reasons I settled on the Bronze Age idea was because it seems like a radical departure. I like to shake up my received wisdom from time to time. But when you really think about it, the core conceits of D&D and the Realms are already largely in place for a Bronze Age game. To quote Chris from his comment over at Hill Cantons: "Socio-politically: IMO D&D presents a mash-up of the Bronze Age and the Age of Exploration. In both eras - as in D&D as written - it was perfectly acceptable to go raiding, stab/enslave the other guy and take his stuff, and then wander home with a clear conscience and a fat bag of swag."

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  5. You know that's a very appealing idea.

    So here's one from me. Chariots were a big deal back then because horses weren't up to carrying riders for any length of time. Or, more accurately, human riders. But in a world with halflings (or more for my taste, the smaller than human version of elves) you do have the option for a mounted cavalry force along racial lines.

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  6. When you say "goblinoids" are you lumping in orcs? I ask because I tend to see orcs as being behind wherever goblinoids as a tripartite race are, given the militaristic organization of hobgoblins. Likewise, there's already that Eaters of the Dead vibe about orcs as proto/divergent men; they have the size similarity, the more powerful build, etc.

    While it's certainly possible to reskin goblinoids in such a way that all three breeds represent elements of the same central species, they're distinct enough that I tend to try and uphold the separate races as linked only to each other, not to other species. Orcs, on the other hand, I could totally see as being a crude, carnivorous offshoot of man.

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  7. GSV: I could definitely see some elven cavalry riding circles around everyone else. Great idea!

    Seth: Yup, I was definitely lumping in orcs. In fact, it was orcs I was primarily thinking of, for all the reasons you mentioned. Hobgoblins would probably be roughly equal to humans (or even a bit ahead, like the Hittites and their mastery of iron). Goblins themselves would probably be somewhere in between, or else super-primitive. No matter what, though, I'm picturing them as three related species distinct from man, rather than a closely-related offshoot. Gorillas vs. chimps, that sort of thing. Now, ogres and (possibly) dwarves I could definitely see as being from the Homo branch.

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  8. I could definitely see some elven cavalry riding circles around everyone else.

    At first, I read that as "riding cycles", which creates a whole different kind of setting, right there.

    One possible advantage of a Bronze Age setting is that it would de-emphasise western Europe, as the more technologically, culturally and politically advanced cultures -- at least superficially -- were much further east.

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  9. I would love this: mythic age Ancient world before Homer and his imitators came and mucked it up ;). Also, Knossos and the Cretan palace civilisation really do make the best dungeons ever, whether you demand a labyrinth under them or not.

    Clay tablet "scrolls." or even rollers that imprint binding spells on things...

    As for Ancients for the ancients, I've been toying with a cyclical time idea for a story: the characters keep slipping backwards until they hit ultra-advanced Atlantis, which turns out to be a century into our own future. Maybe it's a last outpost from some pre-apocalyptic time. Or after everyone else left for the stars.

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  10. And what civilization referenced in the Introduction existed eons ago to leave behind all those magnificent ruins? And what was their tech level like?

    I've played with Richard's idea of cyclical time, and it can be wacky fun. I've also had the ancient civilizations be the aarakockra, thri-keen, and lizardmen, for some really bizarre tech and ruins. The thri-keen have jars of syrupy, liquid memories instead of writing, and the aarakockra have mountain-dwellings that can only be navigated by flying (or a lot of dangerous climbing). Fun stuff.

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  11. I have to say I'm a little dissapointed. I can see where you are going and it does sound cool (I'm a sucker for bronze age sword & sandal) but this really isnt about the realms anymore. I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts on running a stripped-down, grey box realms. I'm sure i'll end up reading your posts anyway.

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  12. kelvin: My thoughts exactly.

    Richard: Cyclical time is an interesting idea. I know the Gray Box mentions why the Realms are called "Forgotten" at some point, but it would be interesting to play around with other meanings that touch upon cyclical movement through the time stream.

    trollsmyth: In noism's classic Monstrous Manual thread on RPG.net a couple years back there was a flurry of discussion at one point discussing ancient civilizations. Someone suggested an idea so cool I copied it into a Google Doc. It outlined the very triad you mention - I guess it must have been you I copied that idea from. Thanks for reminding me about it! If at all feasible, I'll be using it.

    Anonymous: Never fear - I'm still going to be writing about the implicit and explicit of the Gray Box. As I mentioned in my posts, "Each post will effectively be split into two parts; one part will discuss what's in the books and what's literally there [i.e. what I was planning in the first place], while the second part will discuss how I'll be adapting the material for my Bronze Age Realms variation." So it's kind of two posts for the price of one! ;)

    Also, the theme of this series was shifted subtly before it got off the ground by Zak S.'s post that I linked to in a previous post; as much as this is about examining the Realms at their publishing birth, it's also about the journey of how one can "use" a published campaign world. So this is the direction my journey's so far gone. It may well change again as we proceed...

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  13. sirlarkins: That's entirely possible. I've studied enough history that I wouldn't be surprised at all if I've started repeating myself. ;p

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  14. Linkman: The place is England. The year is 787.

    Voice: A.D.?

    Linkman: Of course it's A.D. You don't have to say it's A.D. I mean, they didn't have A.D. written on Letts Schoolboy's Diary, I mean no one is going to say on new years eve "Welcome to 1988 A.D." It's 787.

    Voice: An aeroplane?

    Linkman: No, it's not an aeroplane, it's 787, the year!

    Voice: B.C. then?

    Linkman: No, it's not likely to be B.C. anyway. Nothing happened in 787 B.C. Well, not in England. Ah, all right, in Egypt...

    Voice: In Sumeria, then?

    Linkman: ...in Sumeria, yes absolutely, but I didn't say "The place is Sumeria. The year is.." Hang on, hang on, wait, look, we gotta sort this out. This is background, it's important material, and it's new, it's a totally new link, they won't understand a word of it, you know, if you fade me out now. (fade)

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  15. Great post! Well thought out...

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  16. Pendragon Update

    Going into 504 next session with all sorts of craziness going on. The monk with a Helm of Ignorance and Sword of Truth leads a party of 6 others: a scholar, an acolyte, two knights and their two squires (one of whom is vomiting leaves and sticks from an encounter on the Other Side.) They travel from the Goblin Market in the forests by a besieged Somerset to the Raven Tower on the frontier of King Nanteleod's growing empire. Meanwhile, on the other side of Logres, citizens of London accept the traitorous siege master back into gentle society.

    The knights for Hertfordshire do well enough defending their own county; but, the world outside is beginning to overcome their stamina.

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