Monday, December 8, 2008

GURPS I hardly knew ye

I never thought I'd see the day. But it looks like I'm ready to hang GURPS up. Or at least relegate it to that "thrid tier" of game systems I'll occasionally dust off for very specific one-shots or short campaigns. Ironically, this is the exact category GURPS has always occupied in my game group, but the fact that I've now willingly placed it there (as opposed to trying fruitlessly to redeem it from that purgatory) is pretty major for me.

This abrupt sea change is due to a variety of factors, but the catalyst can be laid at the feet of Kurt Wiegel and his review of Basic Roleplaying.

I'm a big fan of BRP-derived games, Call of Cthulhu and Pendragon being foremost in that category. And despite my long-standing allegiance to GURPS (readers will perhaps recall that it was the second RPG I ever bought, some months after picking up the Mentzer Red Box), I've long felt a sense of vague dissatisfaction with the system, particularly since the Compendia came out about ten years ago. So I've kept my eye out and my ear to the ground, looking for a universal system that would really work for my needs. And I found it in BRP.

I may not have come to this conclusion quite so quickly were it not for a unique confluence of two campaigns.

On the one hand, we have my semi-regular Rifts hexcrawl with Alex; on the other hand, a long-awaited GURPS Banestorm campaign I was going to run for Des. The former campaign was being run with Palladium's house system, but heavily house-ruled (mainly in the realm of MDC, which I've never particularly cared for). The latter campaign got two sessions in before it was put on pause due to Des's hectic grad student schedule and my own issues with running the game using GURPS.

In the case of the Rifts game, I realized soon after picking up BRP that I'd finally found my system to use in running Rifts. I've tinkered with GURPS and BESM conversions for Rifts in the past, but BRP has just the right balance between simplicity and crunchiness that I'm looking for these days. And it's a system that's, in its basics, familiar to me, one that I'm comfortable with. So Rifts got put on hold so I can work on a BRP conversion (thus the City State games I'll be running for the near future).

I might have been satisfied with letting BRP and GURPS co-exist, but the Banestorm campaign finally convinced me to give GURPS the old heave-ho. (When we resume the Banestorm campaign, I'll use BRP for that as well.) It finally occurs to me that GURPS is every bit as guilty as D&D 3.5 in its insistence on having a rule for everything--and the commensurate demands that places on the GM's prep work. The excess of prep work is what finally turned me off of 3.5 for good, and it's done the same for GURPS.

Of course, GURPS was never a "rules lite" system--at least not if you wanted to utilize the full possibilities of the system--but ever since Steve Jackson Games brought on a particle physicist as line editor, well, things have gotten decidedly more...crunchy. And not in a good way.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for Sean Punch (or David Pulver, for that matter), but they definitely changed the "feel" of GURPS. I'm using the old Harkwood supplement to kick off the Banestorm campaign, and back in 1988, the year that product was published, you could fit a GURPS NPC's statblock into about three column inches, tops. Now it's not uncommon to see a stat block (not counting the NPC's background and description, mind) take up a whole column, and sometimes even a whole page!

A quote I ran across on an RPGsite post (in the middle of an otherwise headache-inducing rant against AD&D) summarized how the mighty fell:

AD&D belongs in the same category as Starfleet Battles, GURPS, Palladium, Advanced Squad Leader and Car Wars as being a ruleset based on a decent core game until the creator decided to make more of EVERYTHING and do it in a way that made the game, slow, cumbersome, obtuse, and confusing to all but a small subset of people. (Who in the grand history of selling things to a devoted subset eventually fade away with very few replacements effectively killing your sales into a niche. See American comic books, the SHMUP videogame genre, and hex and chit wargames as notable examples.)


My last defense of GURPS was the chargen system, particularly the use of advantages and disadvantages to help flesh your character out and ensure "balance". Kurt Wiegel even faults BRP in his review for its lack of an advantage/disadvantage system, which he says makes the rules seem "old fashioned." Well, call me old fashioned too, I guess, because I've come to the conclusion that advantage/disadvantage systems are utter bollocks, so to speak. Why? Because you end up with a laundry list of terms that you have to memorize what they do, when you can use them, etc. And as a GM, I can hardly be bothered to figure out what spells a wizard has memorized in D&D, let alone keep tabs on an NPC's advantages/disadvantages. When to roll for this, when you get a bonus for that. The fact that advantages and disadvantages are always "on" makes them far more troublesome than spells, say, which you only have to look up the details for when you want to actively use one. Since it's so easy to forget about who has what advantage or disadvantage, during our Banestorm sessions I found myself playing the NPCs like I wanted them to be played, never mind their quirks and drawbacks.

I've seen several people online (including Sean Punch--what's up with designers not using the very systems they designed?) say that the GM shouldn't bother with advantages/disadvantages, that they're just a tool for players. Apart from the obvious question that raises ("Then why do you publish full NPC stat blocks in your books?"), I say why bother the players with the system too?

Anyway, this all just reflects my shifting interests in how I want to spend my gaming time, etc., etc. It's just pretty remarkable for me, personally, since I've championed GURPS since I was in junior high.

In the end, this quote I snagged off a forum post (I neglected to note the author or link) sums things up nicely:

One thing about advantages and disadvantages is that they're yet more tweaks and special cases. I'm OK with GURPS but the plethora of advantages/disadvantages gets overwhelming. Feats and especially Powers in D&D are "exception-based" rules run amok. Even Stunts in Spirit of the Century get a little confusing at times; a former character had Inner Strength, and I kept having to look up exactly what that meant.


Away with all of it, I say! Play your character the way you want, and I'll do the same with my NPCs!

I can still see using GURPS for a few things, so I'm hanging on to my Basic Set and a few of the choicer 3rd edition sourcebooks, but I'm selling off all of my 4e hardbacks and some 3e books too. Take a look if you or someone on your holiday list is a GURPShead in need of some cheap books. :)

Now I've got some work to do on my BRP Rifts conversion...

17 comments:

  1. Meh....be careful...may just be a case of burn-out or over analyzing game systems rather than spending time working on your campaign and adventures (baby and the bathwater and all that). Now don't get me wrong here...BRP is a very good system and I prefer it over GURPS (Still dreaming of finding a Stormbringer 3rd edition hardbound copy again..sigh) My point is this: the rulesystem is not the game! There is no spoon, Neo! If you find there is an explosion of crunchiness in GURPS 4E...Well then cut the cruft I say! Go back to 3E Basic rulebook and it's sourcebooks of smaller statblocks as your game of choice (plus YOU prolly have it's rules, ads and disads memorized backwards&forwards now anyway! BRP has it's share of rule lookups too with it's skill system which seems to keep getting longer and more detailed. How about amending your character creation Ads/Disads to no more than 1 or 2 each per PC or NPC and toss quirks! Steve Jackson won't bring the roleplaying police to arrest you!Just keep an old pointy TSR d4 as a trusty dagger in your pocket if this ever does happen anyway!Is it still crunchier than BRP? You bet! Does it cover more situations more completely than BRP? You bet! (can't speak for the new BRP but it's a 400+ page book itself anyway!) Trust me, you'll never find a perfect rulesystem that never bothers you in some respect anyway (at least I still haven't after reworking campaign, after campaign, after campaign...sigh). In the end the PLAY is the thing, the rules you're using...bah!

    P>S: Those disagreeing with the previous POV without a logical and coherent argument of their own are big, giant, poopy heads ;)!

    -King "My axe has cut in twain the cruft of AD&D into OD&D HOlmes+Meepo Holmes Companion+1E MM) Kull

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  2. P.S. - All of the foregoing opinion has been heavily influenced by the reading of Jeff Rient's excellent gameblog for far too long. Those taking offense with said opinion are directed to said blog to read each each and every post for a better understanding of my POV prior to disagreeing.

    --King "I would be as popular as Conan if I had any willing curvacious wenches in my stories by Mitra!" Kull

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  3. I really want to like GURPS, but I can never get it to work. The two worst games I ever ran both used the system, and though that's obviously not the systems thought it does kind of make me superstitious about it. I keep thinking I should give it another shot, maybe run a cyberpunk game or something, because I really like the system, I just can't seem to grok it.

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  4. Odyssey: Yeah, the system is actually really nice, and pretty damn transparent once you get into it. It's just the cavalcade of ads/disads and the prep time that killed it for me. Which is why one of my anticipated uses of GURPS in the future will be using Ken Hite's take on Dungeon Fantasy, which addresses my complaints quite nicely.

    Kull: I used to be of the "the rules don't matter" opinion, but I'm less inclined towards that nowadays. After all, if that were true, we'd all be using OD&D still (not that OD&D isn't a bad system, of course!). One of the reasons I'm switching to BRP to run Rifts, for example, is that the whole process of house ruling the Palladium system to fit what I'm looking for constituted as much work as doing a full-on conversion! So I might as well do the required work and in the end be using a system I find to be way more elegant and intuitive.

    Same goes for GURPS; I'm all for houseruling if the underlying system is one that I like, but why try to tweak the ad/disad approach when I'm, in fact, simply not interested in running a system that even features such things? One of the things I like about BRP is how it has a bunch of "toggle switches" built in already. The back of the book even has a checklist so you can go down item by item and decide what rules you'll be using in a particular campaign.

    Believe me, I thought long and hard about my decision regarding GURPS. It's sort of been "my game" since I first picked it up. But since then, I've changed in what I'm looking for out of a set of rules. It was just a matter of realizing that.

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  5. I'm not a fan of GURPS at all. I'm not much of a fan of BRP, but it is okay for Call of Cthulhu. I used to be a huge fan of Palladium, but they do have, hands down, the most screwed up system of any major game out there. People gripe about d20, or Savage Worlds, or Cortex, but they are all more polished systems. They are the new gen systems, and they work in my opinion.

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  6. I've had many of the same problems with GURPS--it never works out very well when I ran it. I think the world of SJ Games, but GURPS isn't really my thing as a system. Their sourcebooks, however, I'll use for any game.

    BRP interests me as a generic system, but I don't have the funds for the investment just now. I'd like to see some good reviews of it.

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  7. I actually wrote a review of BRP a little while ago.

    In short, it offers a lot of solutions as to how to do a great deal of stuff, but it's in a loose, take-what-you-want fashion that appeals to me as a game designer. I just can't grasp highly structured systems like GURPS as a GM, even though I don't find anything inherently wrong with GURPS - it's just not a system that I feel I can handle as a GM. BRP's, for lack of a better term, casualness towards the rules, is my main reason for liking it.

    And if you like BRP but don't want to pay out the $35 for it, go and look up Goblinoid Games' GORE - it is essentially a free retro-clone of BRP/Runequest/CoC.

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  8. Badelaire: You pretty much summed it up for me. I'll be sure to check out your review. :)

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  9. Last time I ran GURPS, I banned disads. Having interesting quirks or things to role-play or for the GM to riff on are one thing. Super-cripple characters and “how can I take all the disad points I’m allowed with the least inconvenience” I’m not so big on.

    Only one player complained.

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  10. Hey, congrats on your Superior Scribbler award!!!

    http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/12/superior-scribbler.html

    Well done, sir, and well-deserved!

    @Badelaire: Thanks for the link to the review! I'll check it out!

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  11. Zachary: Oh wow, I didn't realize I actually won the award--I thought that was just a nomination. Hoot man!

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  12. I always reversed the GURPS psychology. I let the players design the characters they wanted, and then used the character point totals as a rough guide to how much Good Stuff (if beneath the campaign median) or Bad Stuff (if over the campaign median) [Good and Bad Stuff are terms that originated with the Amber RPG]. Worked well.

    Then again I've been a fan of BRP even before it officially existed, and the vast majority of my favourite games (to play or referee) have used one of the many variants of it.

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  13. A particle physicist --?!

    I feel light-headed. I do believe I may faint.


    ... In a more serious vein, I can definitely sympathize, having gone through something similar on a few occasions (most recently with deciding that despite its highlights, 3e D&D was just too much bloody number-crunching for my taste).

    If nothing else, the tone of your post suggests that a break away from GURPS is surely in order; whether for an extended hiatus or simply a vacation, only you could say. I'm glad to see you're hanging onto (the core of) your books, though! You never know when the urge might bite again :)

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  14. taichara: Yeah, for both 3e and GURPS, it really comes down to the number crunching, with memorizing pages and pages of fiddly effects (be it feats or ad/disads) a close second.

    And I absolutely intend to use GURPS again in the future. It's just, well, no longer what I'm looking for in a universal system.

    Other comments have suggested ways to streamline GURPS, and I'm definitely leaning that way. Like, I might limit PCs to using only GURPS Lite for chargen, if we're not already using the Dungeon Fantasy and Action! lines, which nicely distill the system down to manageable templates and packages.

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  15. I second what was said about the Dungeon Fantasy and Action! lines of things. Gurps is a kit for games, and has alot of rich detail sorry to see you have decided to ditch it.

    I'm not at all meaning to disparage BRP though, I really like how that rulebook fixed most of what I found unappealing about prior BRP product, mainly the viciously low percentages for skills that were typically given to players.

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  16. GURPS (like Palladium) suffers from still being controlled by the original creator. Unlike DnD and even WoD the systems can't grow because nobody is comfortable looking at it and saying "What are we trying to do?" "What should the mechanics be?"

    They just come out with new editions with the same bad assumptions.

    SJG is a good company, and they've innovated a lot outside of the rpg space and provide a decent platform for conversions (i.e. you can read the stats and intuit what the point of a character like hellboy is supposed to be). It doesn't take much effort for them to keep it on life support and that's fine; but it's a shame that they've missed out on a lot of opportunities to actually give up the thousands and thousands of pages of confusing silly rules and move into something that would actually be generic and universal and something someone would actually use.

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  17. If anything, I'd say SJG suffers from a problem on the same continuum as Palladium, as you mention, but at the other end: the original creator still owns and runs the company, but in this case is not involved enough in his own creation. From what I understand, SJ doesn't play RPGs anymore, and he basically handed GURPS over to number crunchers and gear heads. Like you say, it really is a wasted opportunity.

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